TUESDAY, November 3, 2009
David W. Cromer

Theme: "The Outer Limits" — Theme answers are familiar phrases that begin with various types of outer limits.

Theme answers:
  • 20A: Herding dogs (BORDER TERRIERS). Is there such a thing as a border collie? That's what I first entered for 20A. I'm not a dog person, so I might just be getting it all wrong, but that's the first thing I thought of.
  • 25A: Brokerage services for buying stocks on credit (MARGIN ACCOUNTS). Don't know much about this one either, but I believe a margin account involves some risk.
  • 48A: Perks on the job (FRINGE BENEFITS). I need to negotiate a better benefits package for my job.
  • 54A: Eerie sci-fi series, and this puzzle's title (THE OUTER LIMITS).
Short write-up today. The kids are off school so we've got places to go and things to do. And I need to get out there and vote even before that whole mess gets started. The rest of you should do the same!

Quick hits:
  • 1A: RBI or ERA, e.g. (STAT). Everybody say Andy Pettitte's RBI Saturday night, right? Good stuff.
  • 5A: Use up, as money (SPEND). See, now this is where I don't think the clue needs to be quite that specific. Leave off the "as money" and we get to look to the crosses to help us figure it out. It's called doing a puzzle.
  • 37A: Day spa garb (ROBE). I do not spend enough time in day spas. I'll never forget the time PuzzleHusband and I took off for a three-day weekend at Pinehurst. He went off to play golf and I hit the spa. The kids were really little then and I basically hadn't been out of the house for something like two years. When I laid down on the massage table I started crying I was so happy.
  • 43A: Memorable mission (ALAMO). Now this here is a clue. Very tricky.
  • 66A: Area below the abdomen (GROIN). This I do not want to see in my puzzle. See also, 26D: War criminal Eichmann (ADOLF).
  • 67A: Eclipse, in olden days (OMEN). Anyone know what it was supposed to mean? The end of the world or something?

  • 2D: Jackson 5 brother (TITO). CrossWorld's favorite Jackson brother.
  • 41D: Kind of participle found in the sentence "While working on my computer, the dog pestered me for dinner" (DANGLING). That is one hard-working (and demanding) dog you've got there.
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Everything Else — 10A: Shock (JOLT); 14A: TV show recorder (TIVO); 15A: Pal of Kukla and Fran (OLLIE); 16A: Redheaded kid of Mayberry (OPIE); 17A: School near the Mex. border (UTEP); 18A: Ziti, for one (PASTA); 19A: Sharp (KEEN); 23A: Eggs, to Caesar (OVA); 24A: "__ no use!" (IT'S); 33A: Tribute in verse (ODE); 34A: Take it easy (LOLL); 35A: Coastal cities (PORTS); 39A: Emulated Bond (SPIED); 42A: Bank takeback, for short (REPO); 45A: Vegan no-no (MEAT); 47A: Moving aid (VAN); 52A: Choral syllable (TRA); 53A: Univ. sr.'s exam (GRE); 62A: Sign up for (JOIN); 63A: New __: India's capital (DELHI); 64A: French cheese (BRIE); 65A: "Beetle Bailey" dog (OTTO); 68A: Head honcho (BOSS); 69A: Observing (EYING); 70A: Small fruit pie (TART); 1D: Theater souvenir (STUB); 3D: State with conviction (AVER); 4D: Head honcho (TOP DOG); 5D: Voices above alto (SOPRANOS); 6D: Land map (PLAT); 7D: Other than this (ELSE); 8D: __ acid: explosive compound (NITRIC); 9D: Cherished by (DEAR TO); 10D: Comedian's bit (JOKE); 11D: Abbr. on a phone's "0" button (OPER); 12D: Falsehoods (LIES); 13D: X, numerically (TEN); 21D: Satan's doing (EVIL); 22D: "The jig __!" (IS UP); 25D: Former New Orleans Saints coach Jim (MORA); 27D: Rod used to strengthen concrete (REBAR); 28D: Swiss peak (ALP); 29D: Scale, as a 28-Down (CLIMB); 30D: Snow-rain-heat-gloom connector (NOR); 31D: Roman fountain (TREVI); 32D: Mar. 17th honoree (ST. PAT); 36D: Male heirs (SONS); 38D: U.K. record label (EMI); 40D: Broad foot size (EEE); 44D: Not taken in by (ONTO); 46D: Actress Hatcher (TERI); 49D: Resentment over a prior wrong (GRUDGE); 50D: Diner, for one (EATERY); 51D: Sexy automaton in "Austin Powers" (FEMBOT); 54D: Dorothy's dog (TOTO); 55D: Top 10 songs (HITS); 56D: Slaughter of baseball (ENOS); 57D: Weena's people, in "The Time Machine" (ELOI); 58D: Major German river, to a Frenchman (RHIN); 59D: "__ la Douce" (IRMA); 60D: Stadium section (TIER); 61D: E-mailed (SENT); 62D: Employment agency listing (JOB).


Orange said...

I tried to get BORDER COLLIES to fit, too.

I think it's THE OUTER LIMITS because BORDER*S, MARGIN*S, and FRINGE*S are outer "limits" containing more letters—but usually a theme like that splits the word up rather than just having the S at the end. E.g., if FRozen bINGES were a thing, FRINGES would be that phrase's "outer limits."


Oh thanks, Puzzlegirl, for reminding me that today is Election Day.

Now I'm trying to remember what that type of diagram is called... like the funny one you're showing of TITO?

To me, this was not a particularly exciting puzzle, but I got through it with no help. The theme was just ho-hum, the clues were not devious, the fill was predictable, and it had no new words for me. But then, I find that my opinions of a CWP are by and large biased by my “wake-up moods”. So, having said that, there are some good things to say.

We just talked about ASTA, the famous movie dog, and today we have two more in a cross: TOTO and OTTO. Those were bottom dogs, but we did have a TOPDOG (4d) and that was cute.

Kukla, Fran, and OLLIE, sure brought back childhood memories.

FEMBOT is a cool entry.

Last year I spent 100 days on Route 66... It’s all about good food! I was never sure whether to call a roadside EATERY a diner or a café. I guess, if the food was greasy, it was a diner; but if the meal had a sprig of parsley, then it was a café.

Thought (30d) was very clever--- "Neither snow NOR rain NOR heat NOR gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds" However, labor disputes will!

Now I’m gonna go LOLL and have my OVA and bacon, with my friend, Brutus.

The best movie theme ever!

Tinbeni said...

The debate of the day: Collies -v- Terriers, only the 'r' in 11-D kept me from doing that too.

Liked the 'Climb' next to 'Alp' and the Alamo's clue but otherwise this was another straight-forward to easy LAT Tuesday puzzle.

Especially enjoyed the interlocking Tito's in the write-up.

This comment has been removed by the author.

AHA, it just came to me--- VENN Diagrams.

Two kinds of CW people I really admire:
1) Those who try to fill in the themes first, before resorting to the crosses.
2) Those who do the puzzle with a pen.

Sfingi said...

Venn diagram - cute. One way to show a simple intersection in a Universe. Beyond about 3, you'd have to go to set theory with its notations, but not as easily understood.

I tried collie - the black and white floppy-eared Border Collie said to be the smartest dog ever - then I had Border Collier - and thought this was going to be some cutesy device to change a word by adding r. Then, realized, there must be such a guy as a BORDERTERRIER.

FEMBOT. Another reason not to watch that accursed film.

Kukla Fran and Ollie. Kukla was a clown puppet, Fran was the human, who sang. Ollie the Alligator had one tooth and droopy eyes. The puppets were voice by Burr Tilstrom. B&W TV. There were other puppets, including Madame who reminds me of Dame Edna. The show was as calming as Mr. Rogers.

@John - I have to do the puzzle with a pen, since I can't see #2 pencil. But, I use either a pastel Flair or a PaperMate Expressions - also pastel. Then I use a different,darker Flair if I have to Google, and a black ballpoint if I have to look here. It's more OCD than HiQ.

Anonymous said...

Ollie was a dragon. He's full name was Oliver J. Dragon.
It was Madame Oglepuss.

Carol said...

I've never heard of a BORDER TERRIER. My daughter had a Border Collie for a few years - talk about OCD! She only had one thing on her mind at all times - find a human to throw the ball!

Didn't like GROIN, ADOLF, or FEMBOT. Liked Kukla, Fran, & OLLIE. Remember listening to 78 rpm records of them as a child. (Yes, I'm in my 60's.) Didn't have a TV set until 1957 as my Dad wanted to be sure they had "all the bugs" out.

Grandpappy Steve said...

Border Collie would have been a more correct answer as it is a herding dog. Border Terriers, as other terriers, were bred to hunt fox & rats.

GLowe said...

I was sitting in a cafe once doing the cw in pen when someone called me a 'showoff'. I said 'yes, I'm showing off that I can't see pencil marks on newsprint'.

If I 'get' the first theme answer and the theme itself right away, I try to do the puzzle in as few crosses as possible from thereon in, and then play around with the longer fill entries to see if there's anything good. Ususally only happens mon/tues.

Burner10 said...

Today my method was random and I started, in pencil with 'spend' - so I got Terriers first and Bo - but Boston wasn't making it. I like Boston Terriers though.

shrub5 said...

I, too, tried BORDER COLLIES but came up one letter short. Not knowledgable about dog breeds so will leave that discussion to others.

@anon 7:29am and @Sfingi: thanks for the memories of Kukla, Fran and OLLIE. I'm of that generation, glued to the set when they were on. Remember Shari Lewis and Lambchop? Lewis was a ventriloquist with her puppets. I think she was on TV a few years later than KF&O.

Liked having two clues of Head honcho leading to TOP DOG and BOSS. Memorable mission is a great clue for ALAMO!

Anonymous said...

Carol, your dad was right. Here it is 2009 and they still don't have all the bugs worked out.


@all the youngsters

For those of you who were deprived of quality children's TV:


*David* said...

6:35 AM and less then ten minutes until carpool. My son you've got less then ten minutes to carpool it's a Tuesday puzzle and easy you should be able to finish it. I see David Cromer, say yes take a drag of orange juice, this one is in the bag. Girls come scampering downstairs complaining about too much noise last night.

I sit down to do puzzle 8 minutes to go. I fill in BORDER COLLIES as one daughter starts to play the piano and I say time to go brush your teeth. The rest of the puzzle is flying and then I get to the Austin Powers clue, rats. Son comes over to me hey we got to go, wife yells time to drive. I add in the the last fill of the puzzle, BOSS.

Lassie said...

Why was the dog working on your computer in the first place? Is he really working, or just goofing off playing solitare? Is he really smart enough to work on your computer and pester you for dinner at the same time?

Grandpappy Steve was/is right.


I think you're right about Border Collies being the smartest dogs.
I also heard that poodles are the smartest. I had a Newfoundland dog... the most lovable dog, but not very smart. I could beat him at chess most of the time.

Joon said...

add me to the "BORDER COLLI... hey, this won't fit" chorus.

lots of dogs today. at least there isn't one working at my computer.

CrazyCat said...

Back from a long weekend in beautiful Chester County PA. Went to the Brandywine River Museum and saw original NCWYETHS. I also wrote in BORDERCOLLIE. As noted above, the majority of terrier breeds are vermin hunters not herding dogs. I have a Wire Hair Fox Terrier which is the ASTA breed. TOTO was a Cairn terrier. I always think of EATERY as something my grandmother would say. Liked the clever clue for ALAMO. I need to take a dessert to an election results party tonight. I think I'll make an apple cranberry TART.
@JNH Our property backs up to Historic Route 66. The other side of the road used to be lemon groves. Now there's a Trader Joes and a Doubletree. Progress?

chefbea said...

Border collies for me as well.

I too use to watch Kukla Fran and Ollie and also Shari Lewis

jazz said...

Border collies smart? Hah!

Mine took nearly 15 minutes to do today's LAT puzzle. To his credit, he wrote BORDERTERRIERS on the first try, but I think it's cause he was beat out for valedictorian at obedience school by a terrier named Rubble.

(He also spelled BRIE with two e's and got pawprints all over the comics)

Nice job PG, ed. and Mr. Cromer. Toughen it up for tomorrow!

Sfingi said...

@Anonymous 7:29- Thanx for info. I actually thought it was Olliegator!
I never knew, or related to, their last names.

@Carol - We had tvs all over since my father repaired them on the side. He had the back room which was heated by a coal stove. These tvs had tubes and there were drawers we kids had to fill with all the resistors (coded by colored stripes) and capacitors, etc. He also had a ham set. When color came out (talk about bugs -pink and green) he stopped. He got his parts from NYC where the Trade Center eventually was built. We had relatives in Flatbush and "Jersey."
They say border collies must be able to herd (or at least be bossy) or they'll go nutz.

As the NewYorker joke said, "On the internet, no one knows you're a dog."

@David - Or is it "Yes, I say yes," James *David* Joyce?

@Shrub5 - Poor Shari - she died of cancer, and I believe it's because she didn't take time to rest.

Just voted. Someone's trying to muck up the Adirondacks (this time) with their darn power lines. Voted NO.

Anonymous said...

I like blue and black pens, pens have a smoother fill for puzzles. If I'm somewhat unsure on an answer I'll "see" if it fits before I write it all down in ink.

Parsan said...

My daughter had a wonderful resqued border collie named Rufus. He constantly tried to herd us into a circle. As others, I tried to make it fit but it was one letter too short.

Finally able to get to my computer in over a week. Trying to recover (again) from what I call my "football injury". Hydrocodine makes me feel like I'm flying but not in a good way.

While unable to get up and in bed yesterday with a heating pad, a Dean Martin movie featured the TREVI fountain in Rome. Called "Ten Thousand Bedrooms", it is one of the worst movies I have ever seen. Just awful!

Saw IRMA la Duce on Broadway years ago and actually still have my ticket STUB (pack-rat). I'll always remember that the picture of the leading man in the lobby had been taken at least 20 before. A real shock to see him in real life. I guess that's why so many get botox and face-lifts.

Knew Jim MORA (handsome) of the NO Saints. What a game last night! Can never remeber ELOI.

Need to get back to LOLLing and get back in bed.

Parsan said...

Oh, the resque instead of rescue was the hydrocodone talking.

jeff in chicago said...

TITO, OTTO, TIVO, REPO, TOTO, ALAMO...Something about this puzzle amused me, though I wasn't totally grooving on the theme.

Anonymous said...

I think it's the humans that have psychiatric disorders, not dogs. Taking an animal that's the result of, literally, hundreds of generations of selective breeding to maximize one trait, herding, protection, etc, then thinking they would function well outside of that environment is delusional. Border Collies and Aussies are the perfect dog as long as their owner is a shepherd. Labs are great dogs as long as their owner is human.


Three coins in a fountain,
Each one seeking happiness,
Thrown by three hopeful lovers...
Which one will the fountain bless?

Three hearts by a fountain,
Each heart longing for its home;
There they lie in the fountain,
Somewhere in the heart of Rome.
~ Sammy Cahn and Jule Styne

At the Trevi Fountain (Fontana di Trevi, Rome, Italy)


A great movie !


Bohica said...

They say the average dog is about as smart as a two year old child. The smartest are Border Collies, Poodles and German Shepards, in that order. These dogs come in at about a 2 1/2 year old.

Didn't much care for Kukla, Fran and Ollie or Shari Lewis and Lambchop. Give me some Captain Kangaroo or Bozo the Clown. I guess that's why I liked the Austin Powers movies and can't wait for a new Simpson's season to begin.

bluebell said...

I also do my puzzles in ink because I can't see pencil on newsprint as well. I like gel ink rolling ball pens because of the feel--have no idea how this preference developed. On a good day, the puzzle is free from whiteout. I don't think I have ever done a whiteout-free Sunday Times puzzle. It's an elusive, probably impossible, goal.

One thing ink teaches you is not to write in the first thing that comes to your head unless you really know it. Therefore I didn't fall into the collies trap, even though I've never heard of a border terrier.

housemouse said...

Border TERRIERS? Really? I haven't even heard of them, but if they are really terriers, it is unlikely that they would be herding dogs, as Border COLLIES are. Terriers were bred to hunt small game, mostly, or to kill rats and other vermin. I think the author owes us an explanation for that one.

I had a border collie for 13 years. He was the sweetest dog you'd ever meet, but not too smart. Maybe he just didn't download the "smart" gene at conception.

ddbmc said...

While eying some brie in the Dehli, a border terrier, who was keen on pasta, meat, and ports, gave me a jolt in the groin with his snout. His snout felt like rebar! The pain sent me to the outer limits. It must have been an omen, because St.Pat appeared to me, along with sopranos Eloi and Fembot singing the Trevi fountain song. I woke up from my "Dallas Dream' to find I was lolling in my robe with the belt dangling. Sometimes the finge benefits of medication is a flight of fancy. I know this account of my dream was marginal, so don't hold a grudge....

chefwen said...

I loved Shari Lewis growing up, favorite stuffed animal was a lamb with really long legs, of course I named him/her lamb chops. Also have a cute sketch done by Dave Nedobek of a very innocent looking lamb thinking to himself LAMB CHOP ???

We have an Australian cow herder mix and he keeps trying to round up the cows that graze on our property. One day one of them, Mena, got a little sick of him nipping at her heels and kicked back knocking one of his canines clear out of his mouth. He didn't learn!



Cute Wirehair Terrier in your avatar.

Not sure that can be considered progress. Unlike the other seven states, the state of California is doing very little to preserve the character of the old Route 66. And I was disappointed to see how few citrus groves have survived. I took so many photos on Route 66 (over 26,000)... it's likely that you might see the back of your house on one of the images on my Route 66 website.

wilsch said...

I filled in BORDER COLLIE first also. I never heard of a Border Terrier, although it is no doubt a tenacious breed. John Katz wrote a couple of good books about his Border Collie. Sounds like a high maintenance dog. Yes, Poodles are very smart; we've had 3, among other dogs.

CrazyCat said...

@ddbmc That totally made me LOL.
@JNH - Thank you. I love my Wire. She's cute, smart and fast. I agree with you about CA not preserving RTE 66, Although my city has done more than most to curb development. There is a very old, very high stone wall that separates the back of my yard from the route. On the other side is a huge screen of greenery that Cal Trans planted at some point and now totally neglects. My house sits on what was a citrus grove until the mid 40's when the groves were decimated to make room for housing. Our city did, however, do a wonderful job of preserving and restoring the old citrus packing house. It now houses an art museum, a couple of restaurants, a wine bar and a jazz club. There are work/live lofts on the second floor.
@chefwan My daughter has a corgi Aussie cattle dog mix - talk about OCD!

mac said...

Easy puzzle with some charm. The last theme answer needed "edge" at the end, but then it didn't.
Losts of pooches I had heard of but Ollie and Kukla etc. are unknown to me. I thought Fran might have something to do with a gigglepatch.

Area below the abdomen? Pilates teachers have a different name for that.

Just about a week ago I saw that old Postal Service line on the big Post Office building on the West side of NY.

Sfingi said...

@Bluebell - this is a problematic situation - do you put down the first thing you think, or wait. Sometimes one works, sometimes the other. Fer sher, you check crosses and length in your head - and in my case recheck to see if you have the wrong # - very hard for the Senora Citizentrix. 3-5-8 especially. Since I wouldn't want to weight down the flimsy newsprint with white-out, I use the pastels first. Then Googles and Rex in dark pen. Flairs move nice, too and can be used lying down. Maybe I should xerox the puzzle on a larger size.

@Parsan - you must get a laptop. Ours is 2nd hand and reasonable - avoid the smallest unless your eyesight is excellent.

Well, border collies are great to admire, but there's nothing like a mutt. Bart Simpson wants a "shivering Chihuahua in a teacup."
A cat to avoid is that (ugly) hairless one. One of my husband's many cousins (like rabbit's relatives) has one that she totes around with blanket and room heater - in NYS.

Gotta watch the returns.

Parsan said...

@Sfingi--My laptop is downstairs and this extreme lower back injury made it too painful to go down to get it. Plus my head just wasn't into the puzzles. Ah well, tomorrow is another day.

ddbmc said...

@Crazycatlady, I so love dogs, but with our crazycat life style, never got one for my kids. LOVED the old Thin Man Movies with Asta the dog. Grew up with a most loving but over protective Schnauzer. I have dear friends with a Border collie (definitely NOT terrier!) and every time you come into the house she LEAPS at you and herds you into the kitchen--which is not a bad thing when contained therein are appetizers and food! (Good dog! Kristy!)
@JohnsNH very nicely shared his pix of Route 66 and being a bit of a shutter bug myself, I must say his pix were FABULOUS! The composition, color saturation,camera juxtaposition/angles, subject matter-- were just gorgeous! Most were shot in 100 ISO situations, but for the environs he was shooting, spectacular-IMHO! @JNH, are you also a Rail Fan? Lots of fabulous train engine pix, too! But I've totally gotten away from today's puzzle. Sorry!

Agree with @JNH- cute theme, but no new words!

Again, with the Irma La Douce! Rewatched recently on TCM. Loved Jack Lemmon, but wow, was he antsy or what? Harvard grad, too. His dad was president of a doughnut company! @Sfingi, did you know that?

Crockett1947 said...

@crazycatlady Wow, Getting to the Brandywine and seeing original Wyeths is on my to-do list. I'm envious.